Posts by Coded Logic

35

Lurkers: A truth is either true, or it isn't. There is no in between.

by cappytan in

jw
friends

truth is absolute.

there is no such thing as 2=1 or 1=2.. if one starts out with the equation 2=1, one has already failed.. truth = truth.

you cannot change whether something is truth or not.. when the organization teaches one thing as a truth (ex.

Coded Logic

Truth is the label we apply to claims that match reality. Therefore, a claim is either true or it's not true.

Just because certain terms are conditional or relative (such as words like "tall" or "good") doesn't mean that the truth is nebulous. It just means we have to specifically know what is meant when someone says "tall" or "good" before we can asses whether or not their claim matches reality.

Words don't have intrinsic meanings. They have usages.
-Matt Dillahunty

As a side note - mathematics in and of itself is never true or false. As an abstraction, it can only ever be accurate or inaccurate just like claims about the force in Star Wars could only ever be accurate or inaccurate. In order for mathematics to be true or false it has to be in relation to something in the real world. For example, if I take these two oranges and put them with those two oranges then I will have a total four oranges - would be true. But 2+2=4 isn't true - it's accurate.

47

Since you left, have you become more moral?

by Coded Logic in

respect.

sympathy.

gossip.

Coded Logic

When I say "moral" I mean the process of critical (and sometimes heuristic) thinking we use to evaluate the actions and behaviors of ourselves and others. Most generally, the metric we use for that evaluation is the well being of sentient creatures.

While the word "moral" may cover a broad range of concepts and ideas - it doesn't then follow that morality is subjective. People use the word "red" in a lot of different ways at different times. But it doesn't then follow that when I say something is "red" its color is entirely arbitrary or subjective.

Don't confuse the arbitrary use of a word as meaning that all concepts attached to that word are therefore arbitrary.

15

A Linguistic Argument for the Existence of God

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

http://www.etsjets.org/files/jets-pdfs/58/58-4/jets_58-4_771-86_baumgardner&lyon.pdf.

my favourite "logical" progression.... we demonstrated that because meaning is non-material, linguistic expressions likewise must be non-material.

we further showed that there is no indication that matter can generate non-material meaning-bearing linguistic expressions.

Coded Logic

meaning is non-material, linguistic expressions likewise must be non-material.

This claim is easily debunked as the first premise (above) can easily be shown to be false. I'll even put it syllogistic form for logic nerds:

P1.) Meaning is produced by brians.

P2.) Brains are material.

Conclusion: Meaning is material process. Therefore meaning is not "non-material".

11

Ever wondered which country in the JW Annual Report is most likely to reflect overall decline/progress of the WTS?

by besty in

a bit of spreadsheet fun - trying to ascertain which country is the bellwether for the wts.. my methodology was as follows:.

take the individual ar's from 2010 - 2016 and calculate an accurate (.00) ave pub increase/decrease for each country.

sort the countries into descending order by this value with the grand total row included in the mix.. assign the countries 5 places above and 5 places below the grand total 1 point.

Coded Logic

Im surprised Australia isn't in there somewhere, with all the drama

We wont know how big of an impact the ARC had until we get next years numbers for THIS year.

33

New York Times article Dec 31 2015

by Gayle in

jw
friends

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/01/nyregion/stalled-brooklyn-park-exposes-rift-with-religious-group.html?_r=0.

jehovahs witnesses have been criticized by community leaders for not fixing up parks in dumbo, brooklyn, as promised.

.

Coded Logic

They haven't done anything for ten years after promising to build a park for rezoning rights?

What's wrong with these guys? The community has every right to be outraged.

16

2016 Yearbook service report stats - Excel spreadsheet download available

by Westenddave in

hello,.

i've posted the 2016 yearbook service report in excel format for public download.

here's the link: http://www.filedropper.com/2016yearbookofjwinexcelformat.

Coded Logic

Wow, the "growth rate" of publishers worldwide is off by a factor of 10 when compared to the human population growth rate! Publishers increased by a measly 0.01% (that's right - one tenth of one percent) vs. a population increase of 1.13%. And in the United State the margins are even bigger - by a factor of 100! Publishers up 0.007% vs US population growth rate of 0.7%. Crazy!

How long before we start seeing negative growth in the US?

*Correction: Both the world and US growth rates are off by a factor of 100. This just gets better and better! :)

54

The Watchtower is not invincible

by Coded Logic in

despite claims to the contrary, there's no guarantee the watchtower will be around in a few decades time.

and it seems to me there's ever mounting evidence that the opposite may well be true.

but it's not just that recruitment is down and their defectors are up.

Coded Logic

I remind myself that there are still Bible Students that follow Studies in the Scriptures.

I suppose it boils down to a question of identity. Will the JWs go away completely? No. Is there a chance we could see them become a shell of them former selves with almost no infrastructure in most countries and an inability to recruit? I'd say the odds aren't looking good for them.

isn't most of this stuff any religion? Like being homophobic. If you aren't, you're not following the Bible.

The Bible claims a great deal many things and a whole lot of it is self contradictory. Furthermore, a lot of denominations place far more importance on the teachings of Jesus about love and acceptance over the crazy ramblings of Paul - and lots of churches don't even touch the Old Testament. But when it comes to critiquing any given denomination I don't care what their holy book says. I care about what they actually teach. And how they treat other people.

In mainstream Christianity you don't see tribalism to such a degree as with the JWs - where they think every other branch of Christianity is the work of Satan. We also see lots of churches where women are seen as equals to their husbands and where it is okay for a woman to be a preacher. And the blood doctrine is the sole property of the WT.

8

Bethel should be considered bad

by dbq407 in

from what i was told, we don't celebrate birthdays because the only two times it is mentioned in the bible, bad things happened.

so if the wt wants to set standards by the "two bad things" rule, then why do they use the name bethel?

i've read two instances in the bible where bad things happened there.

Coded Logic

Dogs are mentioned 27 times in the Bible and EVERY SINGLE TIME they're referred to negatively. Perhaps all JWs should stop owning K9s.

http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Dogs

54

The Watchtower is not invincible

by Coded Logic in

despite claims to the contrary, there's no guarantee the watchtower will be around in a few decades time.

and it seems to me there's ever mounting evidence that the opposite may well be true.

but it's not just that recruitment is down and their defectors are up.

Coded Logic

It's true that "there are a lot of suckers out there" but that doesn't solve their problems for two reasons. The first is that they're going to start losing members faster than they can recruit them. Their entire model both financially and theologically is dependent upon upward growth.

And the second problem is "suckers" don't have much money to give and don't make for good managers in congregations or circuits or branch offices. They really need people with good critical thinking and problem solving skills but instead they continue to alienate such people if not drive them away entirely.

Yet 10 years ago who would have believed " The Watchtower" would have embraced the Internet, created its own tv channel, and have its own flag?
-The Rebel

And embracing such things has not managed to turn the ship around. They've engaged on a mass rebranding effort and that still hasn't helped their problems because they refuse to address their problems. You can put a fresh coat of paint on a sinking ship - which may well look nice - but it's not going to stop the ship from sinking.

I believe that the JW.borg will be around in 10 years but as a much smaller group.
Park Ave Boy

I quite agree. I'm sure the Watchtower brand will be around for a long time. But it's the global corporation with infrastructure in almost every country that will disappear. And here in the US they'll go from having a couple kingdom halls in every town to only having a handful of kingdom halls in the entire state.

Branches will continue to close. Printing press' will continue to be sold. Kingdom halls will start being put up for sale. Millennials will continue to bail. The older hardcore believers will continue to die off. And their number of recruits will continue to shrink.

WIth the exception of KH sales, this has already been going on for a decade now. The writing's on the wall. The WTs in decline. And I'm not sure there's anything they can do to stop it.

54

The Watchtower is not invincible

by Coded Logic in

despite claims to the contrary, there's no guarantee the watchtower will be around in a few decades time.

and it seems to me there's ever mounting evidence that the opposite may well be true.

but it's not just that recruitment is down and their defectors are up.

Coded Logic

Despite claims to the contrary, there's no guarantee the Watchtower will be around in a few decades time. And it seems to me there's ever mounting evidence that the opposite may well be true. But it's not just that recruitment is down and their defectors are up. It's that they've lost almost all control over the Millennials (much less the Millennial's children). And now their mishandling of rape cases has given them an ever expanding legal, public relations, and financial problem.

The next 24 months will be very telling. The ARC is going to make its recommendations and begin a process of remediation. The WT will, naturally, fight it and this will cause even more bad press for them. In the end they will fail and have to pay out a significant sum of money and change their policies.

But that's not the "real" problem. There are two very large issues that I can see ahead for them.

1.) Will other countries carry out similar investigations to the ARC? If they do, they will no doubt make similar findings and also require remediation for the victims in those countries. And with the comes an ever growing plethora of negative press.

2.) All press at this point is bad press for the WT. They are so out of touch they have no way to communicate with people on the outside. And it is becoming harder and harder for them to hide their tribalistic, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, blood refusing, tight pants hating, us vs the whole damn world bigoted mentality.

No amount of whitewashing history or self indoctrination is going to solve their problems. Because fooling yourself doesn't get you out of trouble. And it often get you into even worse set of circumstances even faster. You can't disarm a ticking time bomb by closing your eyes and plugging your ears.